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Old September 17th, 2017, 06:44 AM   #31
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ALL motorcycles are light years ahead of those that caused the reputations expressed here. From metallurgy to international component manufacturing, motorcycles aren't from any single country anymore.

I've had more issues with Honda than my Ducati because the Ducati is manufactured with the latest in component design. Heck, it's a VW. In hundreds of thousands of miles of riding, the only bike that left me stranded was a Honda.

I clearly recall the Gold Wing frame failures. Same with a recent generation of Connie.

The 821 engine was designed for reliable and long service life. That's why it weighs as much as it does.

The Canbus issue is a bit strange, but one that was solved under warranty. I have experienced how Ducati helps out even when the bike is out of warranty. Great guys.

The generation of Japanese with the work ethic recounted here is retired and passing away. Now Japan is switching to robots, importing foreign workers and outsourcing to other countries component production. How do I know this? I regularly watch NHK World TV and see what is going on today. I find it critical to be aware of Asian news, from an Asian perspective.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 08:56 AM   #32
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Interesting. As far as weight, I did a little comparison to some icons:

The strada is lighter than the famed norton commando, and depending on the model, it generates 100% more horsepower even if you believe old norton specs.. And compared to the iconic 77 ducati 900ss, which looks light and airy, it is 40-50lbs lighter and generates about 40% more power. Just idle puttering on my part.

As far as Japanese manufacturing - it's a philosophy("kaizen") and process that can be replicated anywhere by anyone. It is embedded deeply in their culture. In 1996 Porsche hired a group of ex Toyota engineers to overhaul their manufacturing process. It was a rigorous process that saved the company from bankruptcy, and put them on the path to making reliable cars.

I think that every rider owes a debt of gratitude to the Japanese for raising the standard of how reliable and useable a motorcycle should be. The idea regarding "handmade" is, to me , archaic. A ducati may be hand assembled (I don't know) but the engineering is computer driven, and the components that are assembled, are precisely manufactured by robots. at least I hope so!
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Old September 17th, 2017, 10:42 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by appliance821 View Post
Porsche .... put them on the path to making reliable cars.
Porsche sets a very high standard for reliability today.



TECHNICAL ANALYSIS: Ducati?s 821 Desmo 8-Valve Testastretta Engine | Cycle World

"Which brings us back to the new Ducati 821, the first of the “old” family to replace the old angular contact ball bearings with plain bearings. This is a change more radical than it might seem, and it confirms what CEO Claudio Domenicali said a couple of years ago, when he made it clear that Ducati will proceed with two lines of engines—the then brand new 1199 , and a constantly evolved Testastretta in various displacements.

At this stage, the liquid-cooled DOHC Desmo 8-valve Testastretta comes in 821cc, 848cc and 1198cc displacements."

The low displacement end of a range of cylinder sizes may suffer from a weight disadvantage, but gains in less stressed structure and components.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #34
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While I can't find the weight of the 821 engine, it is my opinion that the KTM 1290 engine weighs less.

I found some information. The 1290 engine weighs 136 lbs.

As for the 821, all I can do is infer from this:

"Taglioni extensively drew from the experience collected in years of honing the 250cc Desmo and the mighty 750/900 90-degree “bevel gear” V-twin in all its variations"
"the liquid-cooled DOHC Desmo 8-valve Testastretta comes in 821cc, 848cc and 1198cc displacements"
The 900 weighs 143 lbs.

Last edited by RSL; September 17th, 2017 at 02:47 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #35
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G'day Paul. Based on what I've seen (as a relative new guy here) the Hyperstrada's have a very good history regards engine reliability. Better than Hypermotard, which may see more track time, higher revs and some racing.

The 'Strada (generally) seems to have an easier life. Not much to report here. My bike's failure seems to be a bit of a rarity. Dunno?

I feel Ducati do have higher rate of issues vs. many Japanese bikes ... but are MUCH MUCH better than years past ... and I'd bet they are better then BMW's reliability and recall record ... who are the worst among major OEM's.

Talking to mechanics at two different Ducati shops around here, they say severe failures like mine are pretty rare. My advice? Good warranty.

I love my Hyperstrada, will try to keep it a while longer if it keeps running and doesn't have any more major failures.

As to the real "why" Italian products are less reliable could be debatable. Part could be culture? work ethic? I've never been to the Ducati factory ... but would love to visit. I have been to Triumph, twice ... before and after the "big" fire.

Also got a tour of BMW in Berlin (Spandau). (short, cheap tour .. but still) and got a nice look at Yamaha when I was there to interview CEO. Quick walk around tour as we there only to see the big man. (I do sound, film/TV/documentaries)

If you've been to Japan, spent a bit of time there, then spend time in Italy and
absorb the culture ... you might extrapolate and make certain assumptions. But there's more to it of course.

My experience tells me the Japanese are CRAZY anal about ... everything.
The Germans seem relaxed by comparison, very full of themselves and over rate their engineers where the Japanese NEVER brag. The Italians!? "lets have some more coffee and talk ... oh, look ... it's quitting time!

I never visited Ducati in Italy, but spent time there interviewing CEO's from
a few BIG companies and spent time in various factories, mostly shoe/boot production. Amazing how their industry works there. SO different from Japan, or USA.

My boss is a Japan Expert (Harvard Professor of Japanese ... and much more)
He's a NYC Jew who speaks Japanese so well, Japanese are positively gob smacked when he talks!

Funny to witness. 6'2" American speaking FLAWLESS
Japanese. You should have seen the look on Yamaha's CEO face when he met our guy.

But John was not happy with interview, said the guy would not open up, despite he being "nearly" a Japanese. We just got the standard stuff and ended up not using any of it in the film. Shame. I suggested we do Ducati ... and we almost did, but did Mercedes and Miele instead.

You really have to see how the Japanese work to believe it. Different world. But explains why it's so hard to destroy a Japanese bike! Even if you try!
I think all it takes is watching some of those assembly documentaries to get an idea of the culture at each company.

BMW


Ducati


KTM


Honda


Just some examples haha. I like watching these.

Last edited by kuksul08; September 17th, 2017 at 03:32 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 04:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
I think all it takes is watching some of those assembly documentaries to get an idea of the culture at each company.

BMW


Ducati


KTM


Honda


Just some examples haha. I like watching these.
I think I spotted the Ducati guys over tightening a drain plug

You need to get another hobby man
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Old September 18th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #37
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I find those vids fascinating thanks, very satisfying.... Beemer looks to be the most automated, and in fact the Japanese factory seemed the most haphazard
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Old September 30th, 2017, 09:18 PM   #38
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I Ride: '13 Hyperstrada, '06 DR650
HyperStrada Finally Back On The Road!

After nearly 3 months waiting, I finally picked up my bike today. I can't have the old parts until the warranty company approves as they paid for them. I did inspect the damage a couple weeks back ... and frankly it was so minor I was surprised. They ended up using the cylinder as it was like new with Zero damage or contact, the Master Tech said the cross hatching looked just like a brand new bike ... (remember, this Hyper has 20K miles on it!) The valves were barely bent but the whole head was replaced, new cams, new belts, more. Piston/Rings remained, 100% un-touched and fine. I think i got lucky on this one!

The Mechanic could not offer any specifics as to why the Cam bearings seized.
Manufacturing flaw was about all I got. Although he did mentioned there was a bit too much side play in the Cam, so could have had an affect.

I insisted they check/clean the oil lines, check flow and measure output pressure of oil pump. I am told all is perfect.

The bikes starts and runs perfectly. Sounds absolutely normal. The Mech heat cycled it and rode it around for an hour before I got there. I heat cycled it two more times and called it good. Not redlining but riding normally. Backing off frequently. It appears fine so far. Only put about 150 miles on it today, trying to re-learn how to ride the thing. It's still a blast to ride!

I don't want to sell this bike but I probably should if looking at financial side.
It still got 20 months of warranty remaining ... and once that is gone, not sure
who would buy it?

Anyway, thanks guys for all the support and feedback.

I still need those bloody clutch parts if they ever come in. Although must say,
I've very nearly adapted to this damn grabby clutch!
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Old October 1st, 2017, 06:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSL View Post
Porsche sets a very high standard for reliability today.
That was, of course, my point.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 08:53 PM   #40
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Minor update:
The total bill was just over $8,000! $6K in parts, $2K labor. The head alone was over $2000.

I'm glad RPM paid ALL of it ... it's more than the bike is worth!
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