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-   -   diagnostic plug for GuzziDiag (http://hyperstrada.com/mechanical-technical/2330-diagnostic-plug-guzzidiag.html)

ferdi June 1st, 2015 08:16 AM

diagnostic plug for DiagSoftware
 
history:
on my former MG Stelvio with IAW5 ECU i disabled lambda/O2 sensors with software from JP named Ducatidiag first (here is JPs new page with his SW, but his forum unfortunatly is closed) and later with GuzziDiag from Beard from german Guzzi-forum..
Stelvio had 3-pin diagnostic plug.

So, my attempts to use GuzziDiag on my HS IAW7SM ECU failed, because the only diagnostic plug i found is the 4-pin plug via CAN-bus.

I just had PMed the programmer of GuzziDiag and he told me, that he also found a 3-pin diagnostic plug (the old Ducativersion one) on wiring diagram of HS, but with wrong assignment of GND, which should not be the biggest problem to change on the connection plug (FIAT diagnostic cable) i have already.

GuzziDiag should be able to read and diagnose 7SM ECU, just by choosing California 1400 from available models, as the new California also uses 7SM ECU.
What i really want, disabling lambda control, will not be possible at time, as reading and writing map is not possible yet , but he is already working on this and this will come in upcoming releases of his GuzziDiag software (probably in a new IAW7reader and IAW7writer program).
Fortunatly Guzzi also uses 7SM ECU, so hopefully we soon will have a very simple and cheep possibility for a smooth and richer running engine without closed loop.
As disabling lambda control switches off closed loop, and open loop of the internal map is the only way ECU uses then.
by the way - his GuzziDiag software is free and you only can donate him, if you want.

Does anyone of you know where the 3-pin diagnostic plug is hidden on our HS ?
Should be in back, near ECU or in the tail.
maybe its easy and i can find it by myself when i can take a look at my bike in the afternoon.

gatdammit June 1st, 2015 09:45 AM

In my experience, I'd rather work within closed loop and not disable 02 sensors. I've worked with car ECU mods in the past that tricked 02 readings to accept mods, and there were always drawbacks.

For just under $400 (Italian distributor on eBay), you can get the Rapidbike Evo that works in tandem with stock ECU, within closed loop and has a fantastic auto AFR/tune feature that uses all stock sensors. There is at least one other closed loop tuner, TuneBoy, I think. I went with Rapidbike because it's popular with they HyperMotard crowd.

I just finished installing mine this weekend but haven't been able to sew the bike back together completely yet. I'll leave an extensive post with pictures when it's complete.

And if you really like loading your own maps, there's a separate diagnostic plug ($90) to USB that can be purchased and you can build maps through free software.

BlueSwede June 1st, 2015 10:46 AM

Gat, I'm very curious to hear about your experience with the Rapidbike and the auto tune feature, and what it translates into in on road performance. For me, manual tuning of the EFI is out of the question, but a smart system that measures it's own results and auto corrects seems reasonable, if a bit costly, granted.

ferdi June 1st, 2015 12:45 PM

sorry, the question was not about another tuner or rapidbike, the question simply was for the second diagnostic plug.

and, you cannot compare a tuner which tunes closed loop with an ECU which completly runs in open loop without ECU always wanting to overrule tuner and wanting to get close to Lambda 1 in closed loop.

with deactivating O2 sensors and lambda control the bike simply runs over the internal map also at lower revs and lower load, as it always does in open loop at higher revs and loads.
you simply switch of lambda 1 regulation and let ECU use its internal mapping.

thats much much simpler and more efficient than a tuner.
if you want, you can then change the mapping also. but, basically the internal mapping is quite good and ok.

gatdammit June 1st, 2015 02:02 PM

Well, your asking questions beyond any thread I've read on this site.

I still disagree that disabling lambda sensors is more "efficient" than a closed loop tuner that continuously monitors all stock sensors and adjust AFR in real time. With free software you can also adjust parameters to your needs.

I researched JPDiag. Plenty of people fried their stock ECUs. And if all you get is DP-like mapping, that's not peak performance.

ferdi June 2nd, 2015 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatdammit (Post 15878)
Well, your asking questions beyond any thread I've read on this site.

I still disagree that disabling lambda sensors is more "efficient" than a closed loop tuner that continuously monitors all stock sensors and adjust AFR in real time. With free software you can also adjust parameters to your needs.

I researched JPDiag. Plenty of people fried their stock ECUs. And if all you get is DP-like mapping, that's not peak performance.


please show me my questions I asked, this cannot be so many. I only have 69 contributions and some of them deal with my experience of installing and using the Andreani cartridges.

Anyway, i really do not understand why i should need an external tuner like rapidbike, powercommander+autotune or whatever, when you can go via the internal map directly.
i need no autotune feature which uses all stock sensors, bikes own ECU also uses all sensors automatically. so, the internal map is not a fixed map but also depends on air temp, pressure .....
an external autotune only can set e.g. the AFR to 13.5 instead of 14.7 in closed loop (and also in open loop of course). maybe also different AFRs in different closed loop regions.
but, bikes own map does exactly that. for each rpm and load condition it has individual parameters. an autotune only is necessary when lambda is active, to overrule the regulation to 14.7 = lambda1 in closed loop.
in an full open loop environment this is not necessary any more. the map is already in the ECU und not in an external tuner.

what happens when Ducati develops ECU mapping ?
they create a full open loop map over all rpms and loads and after that add closed loop region with regulation to lambda1 at low rpms and loads. and thats exactly what creates the rough running and surging. without that lamda1 regulation it runs quite smooth.

but of course - you can do and use what you want. i am not here to convince you, i just tell others that tuners are not necessary if it would be possible to run it in full open loop.

and, actually i only wanted to know where i can find the 3-pin serial diagnostic plug, if it really exists at the bike.



PS: i do not want to use JPDiag, actually i want to wait for GuzziDiag for 7SM ECU.

bolbotos June 2nd, 2015 03:24 AM

Hi everyone,

I still tested GuzziDiag with our MM 7SM ECU and this works well! Every measurement block and diagnose test is available. The 7SM ECU is also used in MG California 1400 and Aprilia RSV 4.

The diagnose interface is located under the seat in the area of the ECU. I can take a photo, if this helps.

CAUTION:

The pin assignment is not the standard one on the Hyper! If you connect your 3-Pin diagnose to OBD cable without reassignment, you can brick up your ECU.

I can post further information tomorrow (wiring diagram), if this is requested.

Kind regards,

bolbotos

ferdi June 2nd, 2015 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bolbotos (Post 15911)
Hi everyone,

I still tested GuzziDiag with our MM 7SM ECU and this works well! Every measurement block and diagnose test is available. The 7SM ECU is also used in MG California 1400 and Aprilia RSV 4.

The diagnose interface is located under the seat in the area of the ECU. I can take a photo, if this helps.

CAUTION:

The pin assignment is not the standard one on the Hyper! If you connect your 3-Pin diagnose to OBD cable without reassignment, you can brick up your ECU.

I can post further information tomorrow (wiring diagram), if this is requested.

Kind regards,

bolbotos

thanks, bolbotos,

Beard wrote me that GND is switched between pin 1 and 2, i know that already. my problem really is that i cannot find the plug on my HS. just looked again yesterday afternoon, and i know how the plug should look like. Also found the wiring diagram in manual.
i only find my CANbus diagnostic plug, where i have an healtech gear indicator connected - HealTech Electronics Ltd. ? Smart Tech for your Ride ? GIpro DS-series .
a photo of the location and the plug would be really nice, thank you very much.

bolbotos June 7th, 2015 01:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi ferdi,

sorry for the late reply. Hadn't had time to take the photo.
I attached a photo with the connector. It is located under the connectors of the ECU and it ends in the left cable assembly. Hope you find it on your hyper.

I don't know how to upload high resolution pictures. If you tell me, I can upload more detailled pics.

Have fun!

ferdi June 7th, 2015 02:13 PM

thanks bolbotos,

immediatly after looking at your picture i went into the garage, and really, i found the connector, hidden under the Ecu-connections. i would have never looked for the plug there ;). all cables are so tight and have no room so i never thought that there could be a plug underneath.

when i find time i will change my existing cable to really fit my Ducatiplug and then look at my ECU with GuzziDiag.
At time i am playing around with the Rexxer tuning. Until i get my <2production" files i changed back to stock today, because of the unstable idle.

Hopefully Beard finds time soon to create a reader and a writer for the 7SM Ecu also, and most important, that the version of the California 1400 uses the same adresses for O2sensors activation and heating as our bikes do.


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