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Old March 8th, 2018, 02:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Tyjamo View Post
I wish it were true as a sprocket mod would be easy. But it was much more than that. Mapping. We also run 95 Octane fuel here.
Which octane reading is in use there? Ron, Mon, Pon?
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Old March 8th, 2018, 07:15 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dragoontwo View Post
Which octane reading is in use there? Ron, Mon, Pon?
Supposedly RON. With a little research I discovered the 95 Benzene we use here in Thailand in performance bikes is likely the same octane as Canada's and the US's 91 (AKI aka PON[we love our acronyms!]). Having said that, the Benzene is now labeled as such, simply Benzene with an Octane of RON95. There was 91, but it's no longer.

So the fuel was not accountable for the Monster's performance. Must be mapping. Unless there is possibly something else different between the M821 and the HS821 electronics or mechanical components.

This is all pre-Euro4. I'm not sure how the 2018 M821 or HM939 perform.

I think the intake, exhaust, and electronics will get my Hyper to where it needs to be. If then it's still not enough, you gotta crack the motor. Anybody done that? Rebuild with performance internals, boreing? Too far involved anyway, better to pick up a 1200.

Does the 939 perform better despite a minuscule horsepower advantage to the 821? The journalists were sure the Monster would follow in the Hyper's footsteps and bump up to 939, but until now, MY 2018 it still has not. Curious.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 08:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Tyjamo View Post
I've just discovered this also after perusing the Termignoni website. I haven't seen any discussion about it on this site though. I'm wondering if anybody has actually installed it and what the report is. I get a feeling it's a simplified plug and play system that allows you to change maps, but only to other maps designed by UPMAP ((Termignoni). The RapidBike EVO obviously gives a much higher level of actual tuning versus simply downloading a different map from your smartphone. The maps they have are either for full Termi exhaust, or stock exhaust, varying with airbox mods. There were none for slip on only.

From the info in this thread, it seems the RB must be deliberately tuned, likely via kuksul's map or similar, in order to make it work properly. The auto tune should be a great feature but seems to be more of a gimmick. So what are the results after running kuksuls maps for a few months, guys?

RB can also be used on multiple bikes. This is enticing for me as I'm intending to acquire a Monster 821. Monster 821's by the way are naturally (factory) much more impressive with throttle, power, and general snarl. Has anybody used the RB with add-ons for multiple bikes?

Can the T800 device that is used with the new UPMAP be removed from your bike and used on another, like the old upmap stick from Termi?
With the full Termi system, they claim 5.5 horsepower increase.
With the stock exhaust, they claim 3.3 horsepower increase.

By the way, Kuksul, great job. I follow F1 and MotoGP and these days it's so technical it's light years beyond the laymans understanding. Your posts though give a very understandable and achieveable performance enhancement via the same methods as in the big leagues. As they say, "data, data, data". If I decide to go with RB, I obviously must try your map! What type of engineer are you?

Another wizard, ex Ducati master tech, told me about the Russian maps. That was four years ago but I always remember how mysterious it sounded and I've since fantasized about how insane those maps (or any great maps) are and how they can transform the animal into a real beast. Anyone have any clue about that?

The Hyperstrada is staying. It's the greatest bike I've ever had and I'll hang on to it, so I figure it's worth upgrading now. The 1200's are in my sights for the future but until then I'd really like to see the true potential of the 821.
The Termi upmap is designed specifically for that pipe. It doesn't disable O2 sensors so you will still notice runability issues around town with their kit if you noticed it before. If it did anything out of the limits of the EPA/CARB it wouldn't be for sale here.

The RB still seems like the best option to me without being insanely expensive. I wish the O2's could just be disabled completely, but it's been a while and this does seem to work still. As far as I know only 1 other guy is running my map and he likes it. I'm still happy with it. I have been lazy and haven't done a follow-up data log to make sure nothing has changed.

I am a mechanical engineer and work in testing, so this was right up my alley The only way to truly get more power is to start altering timing. You can play with air fuel mixture all day and maybe gain a couple HP if you do it right, but it's mostly about rideability and smoothness. I value smoothness and predictable power over peak power any day!

I heard the 939's have lots more mid-range power while maintaining the same peak power. I bet that's nice so you don't need to rev the engine up as much. Then again, I kinda like my peaky 821
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Old March 9th, 2018, 03:46 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyjamo View Post
Supposedly RON. With a little research I discovered the 95 Benzene we use here in Thailand in performance bikes is likely the same octane as Canada's and the US's 91 (AKI aka PON[we love our acronyms!]). Having said that, the Benzene is now labeled as such, simply Benzene with an Octane of RON95. There was 91, but it's no longer.

So the fuel was not accountable for the Monster's performance. Must be mapping. Unless there is possibly something else different between the M821 and the HS821 electronics or mechanical components.

This is all pre-Euro4. I'm not sure how the 2018 M821 or HM939 perform.

I think the intake, exhaust, and electronics will get my Hyper to where it needs to be. If then it's still not enough, you gotta crack the motor. Anybody done that? Rebuild with performance internals, boreing? Too far involved anyway, better to pick up a 1200.

Does the 939 perform better despite a minuscule horsepower advantage to the 821? The journalists were sure the Monster would follow in the Hyper's footsteps and bump up to 939, but until now, MY 2018 it still has not. Curious.
I forgot to add that I am also running +1 on my rear sprocket, and I was surprised at how much of a difference 1 tooth on the rear made. I kind of want to ride a Monster 821 to see how it compares with the same drivetrain.
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Old March 9th, 2018, 05:47 AM   #65
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I thought the Termi upmap would have some downfall. It's an entry level chip, with perhaps a small increase in performance. Also, the smartphone link makes it feel cheap and gimmicky, and bound for malfunction. Only one way to find out though.

Kuk, did you ever communicate with Dimsport about settings and tuning or did you simply take it upon yourself? I'm wondering if they had any ways of sorting the issues. You'd think they'd fully understand their own systems and maximize their product potential.

Does the RB unit stay in the bike or is it removed after programming the bikes ecu?

Do you have any idea how the RB maps (auto tune or custom) compare to the Termi remap with full exhaust?

Do you plan to make more maps? Get more playful? Or are you satisfied with the one and only map having smoothed things out and made the bike more poised?
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Old March 9th, 2018, 08:30 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tyjamo View Post
I thought the Termi upmap would have some downfall. It's an entry level chip, with perhaps a small increase in performance. Also, the smartphone link makes it feel cheap and gimmicky, and bound for malfunction. Only one way to find out though.

Kuk, did you ever communicate with Dimsport about settings and tuning or did you simply take it upon yourself? I'm wondering if they had any ways of sorting the issues. You'd think they'd fully understand their own systems and maximize their product potential.

Does the RB unit stay in the bike or is it removed after programming the bikes ecu?

Do you have any idea how the RB maps (auto tune or custom) compare to the Termi remap with full exhaust?

Do you plan to make more maps? Get more playful? Or are you satisfied with the one and only map having smoothed things out and made the bike more poised?
Nope, never communicated with them directly. I worked with one of the main US distributors a bit but he didn't/couldn't go into the detail I wanted.

RB module stays on the bike, the ECU is not reprogrammed at all.

No idea how they compare.

I made a map that works, and that's that. I don't plan to change it. However, considering the insane work I put into my analysis spreadsheet I should really use it to tune other bikes lol.
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Old March 10th, 2018, 02:05 AM   #67
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Kuksul, Very good. The one and done method. Nice work getting it sorted on the first try, like Nikola Tesla would've done.

From your original posts and pictures it looks like the factory headers on your bike. Is that correct? And then which muffler are you running? I'm asking because the Termi Low, (which is at the top of the list for my choice pipe), still has an integrated cat. Do you think the catted Termi, with flapper delete, with factory lambdas, would still perform positively?

When does lambda delete come into play, if ever? Or are they basically relieved of duty when the new map is in place? I assume you have removed or at least disengaged the exhaust flapper?

I pose the same question to Devinjc. Which exhaust system are you running with Kuksul's map?

I'm going with the Giuseppe airbox as well so I'm trying to get an idea how similar our setups are and how the map will perform with different equipment. I'm leaving the telemetry out of it though and hoping I can manage without having to crunch the data, as I'm not privy to charts.

The RapidBike RACING unit allows for tuning of ignition timing, but that is beyond my capacity as well. The last thing I want to do is foul up my bike.

Furthermore, the RB EVO can be used on multiple bikes. Individual wiring harnesses as well as a bypass plug for each bike is necessary. Bypass for when the RB unit is removed, you can ride the bike in factory mode. RB told me I'd need to send it to them for recalibration every time I wanted to change bikes, but if I am using the Pro software it may be possible to do it myself. Kuksul, you've created your own map anyway with the standard software. I'm awaiting clarification from RB about swapping maps with the Pro software. Their website states you can store multiple maps, but doesn't say specifically for different bikes.

For me there was never huge ridability issues. I learned the bike and that was it. Now, im looking to unleash the potential of the bike more than fix its 'issues'. The full exhaust system is too racy, too loud and too expensive. A slip on for aesthetics and sound is enough mechanical performance gain. The real trick lies in eliminating the emissions BS. Hence, the computer trickery.

Thanks for continuing to provide very useful information toward Hyperstrada refinement.
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Old March 11th, 2018, 01:50 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
One thing I forgot to mention earlier that I finally figured out how to do without a dyno.



The TPS in the RB software has to be calibrated. The factory values were 0.64 to 4.12V. I plugged it in, ran the "calibrate" routine, and threw my laptop in my backpack. The range actually went from 0.60 to 4.55V, which coincides with my data logger. However some of that is electrical noise, so with some averaging I changed the range to 0.64 MIN, 4.45 MAX. This will make sure the corrections are being applied to the correct TPS/RPM region.


Hi.
Now bear in mind that I do not have any RB yet...
I am in looking to get the Evo version though. Hence the research...
Kuksul - can the throttle calibration be the reason you saw negative auto adjustment when your wb showed you should have positive? And the other way around?

Another Q is: if I understood your instructions correctly you disabled the “auto tune” function totally?
But couldn’t you have changed the auto tune target instead, preserving some measure of tolerance for different conditions(fuel, temp, altitude and so on)? Or maybe all this is already maintained in ecu anyway... but it is possible to do it this way in Evo version, yes?

BR





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Old March 11th, 2018, 07:22 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Tyjamo View Post
Kuksul, Very good. The one and done method. Nice work getting it sorted on the first try, like Nikola Tesla would've done.

From your original posts and pictures it looks like the factory headers on your bike. Is that correct? And then which muffler are you running? I'm asking because the Termi Low, (which is at the top of the list for my choice pipe), still has an integrated cat. Do you think the catted Termi, with flapper delete, with factory lambdas, would still perform positively?

When does lambda delete come into play, if ever? Or are they basically relieved of duty when the new map is in place? I assume you have removed or at least disengaged the exhaust flapper?

I pose the same question to Devinjc. Which exhaust system are you running with Kuksul's map?

I'm going with the Giuseppe airbox as well so I'm trying to get an idea how similar our setups are and how the map will perform with different equipment. I'm leaving the telemetry out of it though and hoping I can manage without having to crunch the data, as I'm not privy to charts.

The RapidBike RACING unit allows for tuning of ignition timing, but that is beyond my capacity as well. The last thing I want to do is foul up my bike.

Furthermore, the RB EVO can be used on multiple bikes. Individual wiring harnesses as well as a bypass plug for each bike is necessary. Bypass for when the RB unit is removed, you can ride the bike in factory mode. RB told me I'd need to send it to them for recalibration every time I wanted to change bikes, but if I am using the Pro software it may be possible to do it myself. Kuksul, you've created your own map anyway with the standard software. I'm awaiting clarification from RB about swapping maps with the Pro software. Their website states you can store multiple maps, but doesn't say specifically for different bikes.

For me there was never huge ridability issues. I learned the bike and that was it. Now, im looking to unleash the potential of the bike more than fix its 'issues'. The full exhaust system is too racy, too loud and too expensive. A slip on for aesthetics and sound is enough mechanical performance gain. The real trick lies in eliminating the emissions BS. Hence, the computer trickery.

Thanks for continuing to provide very useful information toward Hyperstrada refinement.
You can't buy the pro software, they don't want people being able to tweak too much themselves.
They also don't offer a RB Racing module for the hyper, only the EVO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
Hi.
Now bear in mind that I do not have any RB yet...
I am in looking to get the Evo version though. Hence the research...
Kuksul - can the throttle calibration be the reason you saw negative auto adjustment when your wb showed you should have positive? And the other way around?

Another Q is: if I understood your instructions correctly you disabled the “auto tune” function totally?
But couldn’t you have changed the auto tune target instead, preserving some measure of tolerance for different conditions(fuel, temp, altitude and so on)? Or maybe all this is already maintained in ecu anyway... but it is possible to do it this way in Evo version, yes?

BR





Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk
The throttle calibration was only off by a tiny tiny bit, not enough to account for the 10% fuel differences in the maps.

Yeah I disable the auto tune because I tuned it separately using my own O2 sensor. I don't trust the auto-tune target slider because it still relies on the narrowband sensors. Keep in mind this is completely separate from the sensors/adjustments that adjust for elevation (MAP sensors), air temperature, or engine temperature. They still work correctly on their own.

There are different maps within the stock ECU. For example you have the base map which is set up at the factory for a particular elevation, fuel type, temperature, etc, and is a really good starting point. Then you have multiple correction maps that take input from the O2 sensors, MAP sensors, temp sensors, and adjust accordingly. The only thing the RB EVO does is intercept the O2 sensors.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 07:17 PM   #70
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Right, so we can only use the EVO and the standard software. Even so, I should still be able to re download your map each time I put it back on the Hyper.
How has fuel consumption been affected by your map?
Which muffler are you running, Kuksul?
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