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Old April 14th, 2018, 10:29 AM   #1
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From: Lansing Mi
Posts: 103

I Ride: 2013 hypermotard/hyperstrada, 2005 zx6r, drz125, crf50 crf70
Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes

Throughout my years of riding the Yamaha Brembo R1/R6 16mm radial(technically a semi-radial because it is at an angle) master cylinder has been kniwn as THE budget master cylinder used for racers it is also used as a rear hand brake for many stunners. Today I started looking deeper into doing this swap only to stumble on to an added expense hurdle. The location of the banjo fitting, it has a ~90 bend right at the fitting. This is an issue because almost all radial pumps need a strait fitting due to the banjo bolt location. I was looking to do the 16mm brembo swap because I wanted added piston size, because the SP uses a radial, because it would be cheaper than buying levers alone and because they just look modern n cool. I also have a Beringer radial sitting on the shelf but it's a 21mm piston and I would run into a similar situation with banjo bolt location being on the top. Any ideas other than replacing the 1st section of steel braided hose from the hand pump to the ABS pump? Is the juice worth the squeeze in your opinion? This is a daily driver with the occasional track day and large group ride.
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Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-20180414_140442.jpg   Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-20180414_140445.jpg   Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-20180414_140452.jpg   Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-20180414_142005.jpg   Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-smartselect_20180414-142401_google.jpg  

Front master cylinder swap on NON SP bikes-smartselect_20180414-142427_google.jpg  
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Old April 14th, 2018, 09:22 PM   #2
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This has been dealt with by several postings on the web, including mine on this forum, easy to fix and I'm very happy I did it...
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Old April 15th, 2018, 05:55 AM   #3
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I Ride: 2013 hypermotard/hyperstrada, 2005 zx6r, drz125, crf50 crf70
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadToTheBown View Post
This has been dealt with by several postings on the web, including mine on this forum, easy to fix and I'm very happy I did it...
I rarely post without searching the web or this page. Where are these posts you speak of? There are 2 pages under "master cylinder" (which should encompass everything). On the 2nd page there are only about 8 posts, none of which say anything about the 2 master cylinders I'm referencing. One of them does go into detail about a Brembo RCS but the only detail is that they did the swap, they used a banjo pressure switch and that they were happy with the outcome. Most of the other pages are troubleshooting stock components.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 08:30 PM   #4
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There's plenty of forum stuff suggesting the RCS 19, the RCS 17 really hit the modulation sweet spot, although 19 would have given 1-2 finger power, just not as much feel...I read all of them before I came across the 821 Moster posting suggesting the 17 instead, I little more Internet digging found a site where Brembo backed up the 17 for our bikes...you need to change up your searches, play with the permutations, it can take hours sometimes...

Here's where I originally found the idea for what i did, took 2 mins to find on the Internet...admittedly I knew better what to put in the search engine...
Brembo RCS 19 - ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts

Here's what I did, took a little better than 2 seconds to find on this forum...just had to look for my posts...
HyperProject - Post 40

This is one of the upgrades I'm most pleased with so far...enjoy...

Last edited by BadToTheBown; April 20th, 2018 at 07:50 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 05:55 PM   #5
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I Ride: 2013 hypermotard/hyperstrada, 2005 zx6r, drz125, crf50 crf70
I was looking for more of a dedicated post about what others have done as opposed to looking within a group post but I see you post. I was hoping to see some back and forth on the subject. It differs from caliper combination/master cylinder combination from bike to bike. Braking USA recommends a 16mm master to operate 1 four piston caliper, Beringer recommends a 13mm to operate that same caliper. Somparing a monster to a hyper doesent nescessarily roughly translate over. The hopeful for back and forth communications with pieces I am looking at but was doubtful I would find. Although, I am the same way among the drz community with answering the same questions over and over again(its like, learn the search function guys. Right.). But, I didn't feel this was a subject that has been covered more than one or 2 times and it appears as though that is not false. Being that the only real coverage was from 2017 followed up by nothing but praise helps to prove that. That radial to axial line adapter is a great score. I will be looking for that now. I do appreciate you taking the time to help a new Ducati-ist. Looks like I will be going forward with this.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 10:41 PM   #6
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All I can say is... it can be a little tricky. The SP comes with an 18mm diam master cylinder. I've ridden all sorts of bikes with anything from 14 to 19. I definitely prefer the smaller diameters because it allows 1 finger braking. Coming from mountain biking, I like to have wheel-locking power with just 1 finger. The only downside is with a small m/c, you are moving so little fluid volume that it exacerbates other issues, like misalignment, air in the system, and brake line expansion.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #7
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I should offer that the brake master cylinder sizing is not hit or miss or a recommendation based on just 2 pistons vs. 4 pistons. It is about piston size, to some degree how many of them you have, leverage ratio at the lever, how constant that leverage is, etc.

So, a 17mm master ends up being a good fit for modulation on our piston size for when using a radial master cylinder. Can be a little different with an axial master cylinder, although on paper just looking at cylinder size they would not appear to be the same. One also needs to take into consideration how the leverage to the cylinder is applied. A radial is more rigid feel against the cylinder and move consistent application of the pressure. If you look close at the stroke on an axial cylinder, depending on lever position, I think you'll see it changes a little through out the full stroke. I think this is why I feel they are like a switch, when they're on, they're on. I noticed the same on my mountain bike when I switch from Avid axials to Hayes radials. Better feel and modulation for me. I definitely now prefer radial.

If you just brake and don't ride aggressively, I don't think it matters. IF you're pushing riding hard a lot, I think you'll care. So it's a pretty subjective line if you should change over. Remember, your brakes will work just as good with either axial or radial brakes, what changes is your feel of the brakes and modulation is important to this feel. Bigger master cylinders will give you stronger brakes faster but will feel more "wooden". You will need less fingers if that's what you are after. I like to size to use almost all the stroke to get the most feel/modulation...

Last edited by BadToTheBown; April 20th, 2018 at 08:10 AM.
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