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Old September 13th, 2018, 04:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krolinked View Post
What's needed to remove the sensor leads? I have rapidbike Evo. Would like to disconnect the sensors but what else do I need to do?
Rapidbike said to disconnect the actual plug that gos from the sensor to the rapidbike wiring(not the plug that connects from the rapidbike into the main wiring harness) and the bike will default into 'open loop'. In the instructions it talks about doing this too but you need to turn off autotune. The bike will be folded into thinking the target air fuel ratio is on point but the bike will no longer detect a sensor. It runs great now with the sensor unplugged, the Kul map uploaded and the autotune off. When doing the Kul map he even says to disable the autotune(if I remember correctly) but leave on "rbo2" to trick the sensors into thinking the target is good. There are many threads where ducati riders solder a resistor across the sensor leads to turn off the dash light but those threads are not for the hyper, so it is a common thing to just unplug and run. You can do what you want to do but eventually I'll replace the sensors. I only have resistance across 2 of the sensor leads and the value changes as I heat the sensor with a heat gun. Both sensors had the same values while testing. This made me think that the sensor were good so I started emailing CA Cycleworks (a common supplier for TPS sensors for the other ducatis) and they say that the likelyhood of the TPS on the hyper being bad is highly unlikely. I explained what all I have done and they concur that the lambda sensors, their wiring or the leads from the sensors through the wiring harness might be the issue (apparently sometimes the sensor wires dont just go strait to the ECU. Sometimes they go up to the display too(I havnt been through that part of the wiring harness yet.

Don't let disconnecting the o2 sensors scare you. The bike will be running a known tune that has had alot of research done to make it ideal(even though that changes slightly from bike to bike it wouldn't be enough if a change to cause catastrophic failure). The original EFI bikes like the honda 929 and early R1 only ran open loop and numerous tuners prefer open loop to get the most power. There are many threads about having rexxer and other stock ECU tuners program them to turn the O2 sensors off just so the dash light gos away and so the maps they upload are uninterrupted.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 04:52 AM   #22
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if it's an 821 and you disconnect o2sensors, bike automatically is in open loop and runs much better because its only running with its internal maps. only thing is that the yellow engine light is on.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 05:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ferdi View Post
if it's an 821 and you disconnect o2sensors, bike automatically is in open loop and runs much better because its only running with its internal maps. only thing is that the yellow engine light is on.
That's what I'm saying. I have a tendency over explain.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 06:11 AM   #24
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So your saying the internal maps operate in a vacuum. How does the bike know if it starting at sea level on a warm day, or high on a cold mountain. It no longer has air/fuel info to adjust, based on the map, what it's pumping into the cylinders. What happens over time to the cylinder walls, what kind of stress is being placed on the motor?
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Old September 13th, 2018, 06:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by appliance821 View Post
So your saying the internal maps operate in a vacuum. How does the bike know if it starting at sea level on a warm day, or high on a cold mountain. It no longer has air/fuel info to adjust, based on the map, what it's pumping into the cylinders. What happens over time to the cylinder walls, what kind of stress is being placed on the motor?
all other sensors are still active, only regulatiuon in closed loop to (nearly) lambda 1 is off.
o2sensors do not messure airpressure, temp or whatever else.
internal maps have corrections to airpressure, temperature, enginetemp ....
the only reason for o2sensors is "clean" exhaustfumes, which are not good for a good and healthy running bike.

Last edited by ferdi; September 13th, 2018 at 06:57 AM.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdi View Post
all other sensors are still active, only regulatiuon in closed loop to (nearly) lambda 1 is off.
o2sensors do not messure airpressure, temp or whatever else.
internal maps have corrections to airpressure, temperature, enginetemp ....
the only reason for o2sensors is "clean" exhaustfumes, which are not good for a good and healthy running bike.
Airpressure etc. affects O2 levels and the bike adjusts the fueling based on those levels. Much of riding is done in the closed loop mode - idle and cruising - and the efi reacts to and adjusts based on the sensor readings. Do what you like etc.., but in my book the starting and warming of an engine is a critical stress time for the motor, and I'd want the correct AFM, and if it helps with clean emissions too- I'm all for it.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 11:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by appliance821 View Post
Airpressure etc. affects O2 levels and the bike adjusts the fueling based on those levels. Much of riding is done in the closed loop mode - idle and cruising - and the efi reacts to and adjusts based on the sensor readings. Do what you like etc.., but in my book the starting and warming of an engine is a critical stress time for the motor, and I'd want the correct AFM, and if it helps with clean emissions too- I'm all for it.
you are right, but its more healthy for an engine to run rich than lean. and o2 regulations leans out air/fuel ratio to lambda1, which is not really healthy, for any engine.
cars and bikes do not have wideband o2sensors, but only narrowband, which are only able to read air ratios richer or leaner than lambda1. so it always changes ratio leaner leaner leaner - ok - richer -ok - leaner .... so that ratio always is in the near of lambda 1.
if you use a wideband sensor, than you exactly can manage air/fuel ratio for load and rpm, but that's not the case with our bikes. They only have very simple narrowband o2sensors.

but, if you do not know about it und do not believe it - do what you feel is right in your opinion, but please do not tell technicians how engines and fuel injections work and whats good for them.

Last edited by ferdi; September 14th, 2018 at 12:34 AM.
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Old September 13th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #28
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Like Ferdi said. Look at all the sensors that are still in play. Many tuners and race teams opt to remove the o2 sensors and tune based off of a wide band sensor as opposed to an on/off narrow sensor. Here is a nice diagram of the wiring and the sensors

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Old September 14th, 2018, 07:09 AM   #29
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if the engine doesn't detect the sensors when the sensors are disconnected, it defaults to running in safe mode, not necessarily optimum running mode. That's why the bike runs better.
Same as a mass air flow meter, if they are faulty, cars tend to run like a bag of shite, but disconnected puts them in default safe mode, so the engine does run better, but it again not at its best.
In simple terms, if disconnecting your lambda sensors makes your bike run better, you know one or both need replacing. Don't just rely on the safe running mode by leaving them off.
If the Rapid Bike didn't need these O2 signals then it would have come with blanking plugs like a power commander 5.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #30
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I know from initial research that the Auto Tune function definitely uses O2 input.
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