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Old February 1st, 2017, 12:15 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by zippy49 View Post
After reviewing the service manual again it appears that the "service pins" that they call for are actually bolts that hold the assembly together against pressure from the four springs labeled #11 on the diagram. These springs help release the clutch pack, and I can't remember seeing them on any other bike. So these are the 5mm bolts or studs with nuts that are needed for the job. The thread into part #12, which is why they want you to remove the big nut. I suspect that if you just pull the pressure plate off without these "pins" the springs would fall out of place. Sounds tough to reassemble.

Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable clutch tool on ebay. The P/N is 88713.2556 and most dealers want around $280 for it. I don't think that's a coincidence.

If anyone has successfully done this without removing the big nut, I'd like to hear about it. Hmm, maybe if I lay the bike on it's side?
When I asked member fregilb on ducati.ms he said he just held the rear brake and put it in gear to remove the nut.

Worth noting is that the 2013/14 and 2015 stackup is totally different. The 2013 actually has a form of spring washer they call a "convex driven plate", in addition to several various thickness driven plates in the stack, rather than the simple 2015 setup. Thus, we will have to make sure to place the judder spring in a position that lets it ride on a flat driven plate and not the convex driven plate. I think this means putting it inboard. Kinda confusing.

I'm wondering where 'brentfrank' put it. He only posted once, and posted a duplicate post on another forum, and never again. It popped up while researching this very issue Ducati APTC clutch sucks, does your's? | PNW Riders

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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:15 AM   #72
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Now we are getting somewhere. Here is the Monster 821 assembly - note that the "convex driven (steel) plate" is replaced by a plain 1.5mm plate like the rest. We will need that added to the Barnett kit.

The stated total stack height for the Monster is 53.5 mm. When I add up the stack on the 2013 pack it comes to only 51.8 mm, although the convex plate might take up some of the difference. The mix of thick vs thinner plates is different, too.
Attached Thumbnails
Monster 821, gets modified clutch spring!!-monster-821-clutch-parts.jpg   Monster 821, gets modified clutch spring!!-2013-hyper-clutch.jpg  

Last edited by zippy49; February 2nd, 2017 at 06:35 AM.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 08:42 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by zippy49 View Post
Now we are getting somewhere. Here is the Monster 821 assembly - note that the "convex driven (steel) plate" is replaced by a plain 1.5mm plate like the rest. We will need that added to the Barnett kit.

The stated total stack height for the Monster is 53.5 mm. When I add up the stack on the 2013 pack it comes to only 51.8 mm, although the convex plate might take up some of the difference. The mix of thick vs thinner plates is different, too.
Do you think there's any reason we couldn't run the convex plate AND the judder spring? It's obvious the convex plate isn't doing much, if we're all here complaining about it.

Also, I measured the new Barnett friction plate at 3.44mm overall (the base metal the friction material is glued to is 2.5mm). The judder spring & spacer maximum height is 3.6mm and fully compressed height is 2.42mm.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 10:18 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by kuksul08 View Post
Do you think there's any reason we couldn't run the convex plate AND the judder spring? It's obvious the convex plate isn't doing much, if we're all here complaining about it.

Also, I measured the new Barnett friction plate at 3.44mm overall (the base metal the friction material is glued to is 2.5mm). The judder spring & spacer maximum height is 3.6mm and fully compressed height is 2.42mm.
Funny thing, I just had a caliper out to do the same. I think that if the total height is close (there's a stated tolerance) it will be fine.

For all we know that convex plate is part of the problem. I'd feel better if it was as close to the 2015 spec as possible. A suitable steel plate won't add much to the cost.

Kuksul, I just looked at the back of Chance's biz card and found a note. He denied having a spring or seat for me and wondered where you got yours. I did email him the pic. Did you speak with Mike? Hopefully they will get this straightened out.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 10:57 AM   #75
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Funny thing, I just had a caliper out to do the same. I think that if the total height is close (there's a stated tolerance) it will be fine.

For all we know that convex plate is part of the problem. I'd feel better if it was as close to the 2015 spec as possible. A suitable steel plate won't add much to the cost.

Kuksul, I just looked at the back of Chance's biz card and found a note. He denied having a spring or seat for me and wondered where you got yours. I did email him the pic. Did you speak with Mike? Hopefully they will get this straightened out.
Huh... weird. Mark (Mike maybe?) said he knew exactly which one it was since they only have one Ducati clutch kit with that spring. Maybe it's from the Hyper 1100 dry clutch kit.

Agree on trying to match the 2015, within reason. Not sure how we can reconcile the different plate thicknesses. I'm not sure I understand Ducati's logic with our stackup. Maybe there is no logic, and they just stacked random thicknesses until it was a height that worked.

Barnett does sell a Hyperstrada clutch kit with all friction plates and steel plates. Maybe this, coupled with the special red clutch plate and judder spring that I received, is the optimal conversion.
https://www.barnettclutches.com/2033...perstrada.html

Barnett Clutch Kit Ducati 821 Hypermotard 2013 2014 306 25 20010 | eBay
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 10:14 AM   #76
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I'm willing to believe that the 2.8mm number is a typo. The 2015 set specifies 3.5mm. I agree that the mix of thicknesses seems strange, but I'll point out that the clutch service pages in the 2015 Monster manual I have are also out of order. The pages are numbered correctly, but the info is backwards - starts with reassembly!

If we can talk the guys at Barnett into making the kit as you suggest, it would also fit the 2015 and later 821s. They won't have the volume as for other brands, but it's an easy kit with off-the-shelf parts. You have had better luck with them than I have, and are probably closer to installing it, feel like asking?
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 10:36 AM   #77
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So you think we need to include a flat driven steel plate with 1.5mm thickness in the retrofit kit?
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 12:38 PM   #78
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Zippy is this what you figured as well?



Edit: I think for the 2015 Hyper it is a typo. The Driven (turned) should be 1.5mm, and the Drive (Narrow w/Judder) should be 3.5mm, which is how your Monster 821 states above.

Last edited by kuksul08; February 3rd, 2017 at 12:44 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2017, 08:47 AM   #79
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Yes but not in that order. The stack you show for the 2015 Hyper has it backwards... the first plate is the narrow friction plate, and it's 3.5mm thick. The anti-judder spring and seat fit inside of it. Then there should be a 1.5mm steel plate next. We will need that in the kit. When we're all done the overall height of the hybrid stack will be only 0.7mm thicker than before - less whatever thickness the "concavity" added.

I think it will work. I'm sure willing to give it a try!

Last edited by zippy49; February 4th, 2017 at 08:52 AM. Reason: oops
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Old February 6th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #80
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Good call on the Pazzo's, I'll have to look into them. Thanks
It's annoying & thank you for validating it. I feel better about my clutch skills now.
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